Answering Anti-Semites

I am constantly getting into debates and discussions regarding Jews and the role of Jews in the (perceived) decline of Western culture.   I find the same arguments and issues keep coming up again and again.  So I am preparing this FAQ in order to try to avoid repeating myself.

1. What is an Anti-Semite?

For purposes of this discussion and my arguments online, I define an “anti-Semite” as someone who feels that Jews are collectively to blame for the problems of (non-Jewish) Whites.  The reason I define the term this way is because of the way these issues normally come up:  Some problem facing the West will be discussed, and very frequently somebody will jump in to the conversation with a claim that Jews as a group are to blame for said problem.    The implication is that without the Jews, whatever issue is being discussed would not have been a problem.

2. Do People Really Feel this Way?

Yes, there really are people who maintain that Jews are to blame for the problems facing (gentile) Whites.  For example, this quote from Mangan’s blog:

See, it’s funny that Greg says what he says, because that’s EXACTLY what a Jew would say to keep the heat off of themselves for what their people have done to white culture — and indeed (via the policy of race replacement that they engineered and supported) what they have done to the white race.

. . . 

The first step in whites regaining their strength is identifying who is responsible for destroying their culture and how they did it. It happened because an evil people used scheming and underhanded methods (all openly laid out by the Frankfurt School) to undermine and destroy their host society.

No, Greg. This was done to us. Instead of sitting around blaming ourselves, we should stop the enemy in his tracks. THAT’S how we regain our identity and reclaim our power.

http://mangans.blogspot.com/2011/03/taylors-letter-to-alexandra-wallace.html#c2612416190812750936

Of course, this is one of many many posts.

3.  Are Jews in Fact to Blame for The Problems Facing Gentile Whites?

No, the evidence does not support this claim and instead indicates that something else is the problem.  The main evidence offered in support of the anti-Semites’ claims is that Leftists are disproportionately Jewish and Jews are disproportionately Leftist.  However, it does not follow from this that Jews are responsible for Leftism.  Consider that in the modern era, scientists have been disproportionately Jewish and Jews have disproportionately been scientists.  Does it follow that Jews are collectively responsible for modern science?  Of course not.   There are plenty of non-Jewish scientists who are perfectly capable of scientific advance.  Or consider the situation in places like Sweden, where there are plenty of Gentile Leftists and very few Jews.  Clearly Gentiles are perfectly capable of and willing to pursue Leftism without Jews.

The other piece of evidence which is usually offered is that the West has moved to the Left since Jewish influence started growing in the second half of the 20th century.  Of course, this evidence suffers from the same problem as the first bit:  Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.   More importantly, one can observe that America (and indeed the entire West) has been steadily moving to the Left since long before the Jews had significant influence.  For example, the emancipation of black slaves in the 1860s followed by the original civil rights legislation; giving girls the right to vote which culminated in 1920 but was the result of a large movement for many years earlier; and so on.

The anti-Semites would have us believe that whatever process was moving the West to the left magically stopped in 1950 and after that it was the Jews.  Of course this goes against common sense and Occam’s Razor, which says that it’s been the same process the whole time.

4.  But What About Kevin MacDonald?

Basing your argument on Kevin MacDonald books is an argument from authority.  In other words, what matters is the evidence or arguments presented by MacDonald and not his conclusions.  Whenever people bring up Kevin MacDonald, I normally ask them to summarize the best evidence or arguments presented by MacDonald that Jews are responsible for the decline of the West (or of America).  The usual response either boils down to the disproportionality argument debunked above, or a refusal to elucidate further.  Based on a lot of experience, I have found that in online debates  when somebody refuses to summarize the evidence or argument in a source and back it up with quotes, it’s because the source doesn’t actually add anything to the argument.  My conclusion is that Kevin MacDonald doesn’t have any evidence or argument besides what I summarized in the previous question.

5.  But The Jews Control the US — Just Look at All the Aid We Give to Israel

If the Jews control the US, then why hasn’t the American Embassy been moved to Jerusalem?  Why wasn’t Jonathan Pollard released early?  Why does the US pressure Israel to freeze settlement construction?  Besides, the US gives military support to a lot of countries besides Israel.  For example, the US has thousands of actual troops stationed in South Korea and Japan.  The US has treaties with Turkey, France, and the UK which say that attacks on those countries will be treated like attacks on the US.   Which isn’t to say that there is no Israel Lobby exerting influence over the US government.  But it’s clear that the US is not a puppet of Israel as the anti-Semites often claim.

24 Responses to “Answering Anti-Semites”

  1. Svigor Says:

    Hot air. Ashkenazis monolithically oppose Whites having the rights Jews have in Israel.

    [Fortaleza84: What rights do Jews have in Israel besides preferential immigration? And are you saying that Jews monolithically oppose the preferential immigration policies of places like Poland, Iceland, and Ireland?]

    Arguing with them about who caused which of Whites’ problems is a distraction from the issue of whether or not Whites are allowed to figure out (via experimentation – scientific method?) exactly what the problem is via separation. And Ashkenazis fight any hint of that separation (regardless of reasons) tooth and nail.

    But brilliant piece of lawyering here, guy. E.g., the part where people refuse to rewrite MacDonald’s corpus just for special little you, 7 days a week, until they get tired of you and start ignoring you, and you therefore win the argument. That was just brilliant.

    [Fortaleza84: It’s not that they refuse to re-write it — they refuse to even summarize his best arguments and evidence, something which could be done in a paragraph or two.]

    This is one of your more transparent tactics. You’re always asking people to do your leg work for you.

    Meanwhile, none of the brilliant Ashkenazi minds can answer MacDonald. You were saying, about logical conclusions?

    And typical of your style. You’re not the brightest Ashkenazi in the shtetl, are you?

    [Fortaleza84: No need for personal insults. Just summarize MacDonald’s best arguments and evidence and I will try to respond. Who knows? Maybe I will concede that he is right.]

  2. Svigor Says:

    If the Jews control the US, then why hasn’t the American Embassy been moved to Jerusalem? Why wasn’t Jonathan Pollard released early?

    See, this is just more of your tendentious 7th-grader bullshit. First you use a straw man:

    Tendentious, stupidly narrow interpretation of “control,” and/or pick the dumbest “ANTI-SEMITE!!!’s” characterizations.

    Then you coast to an easy victory over said straw man.

    [Fortaleza84: There really are people who believe that the US government is essentially a puppet of Israel and/or the Jews. Do you really want references for this?]

    Why does the US pressure Israel to freeze settlement construction?

    That’s not a sentence.

    Besides, the US gives military support to a lot of countries besides Israel. For example, the US has thousands of actual troops stationed in South Korea and Japan. The US has treaties with Turkey, France, and the UK which say that attacks on those countries will be treated like attacks on the US.

    Price of tea in China. But let’s do compare the per capita spending on Israel vs. Anywhere Else. Let’s.

    [Fortaleza84: Fine, I choose to compare Israel with (1) South Korea; (2) Bahrain; (3) Kosovo; and (4) Kuwait. Please feel free to show evidence comparing per capital US military expenditures for these places with per capita military aid Israel.]

    Which isn’t to say that there is no Israel Lobby exerting influence over the US government. But it’s clear that the US is not a puppet of Israel as the anti-Semites often claim.

    More of your typical Ashkenazi bullshit. First you use a straw man (“Israel Lobby exerting influence” is far closer to the actual position of sane “ANTI-SEMITES!!!” than “puppet of Israel” is), then you use that straw man to label all “ANTI-SEMITES!!!” as if what some dumbass Stormfront reject thinks has anything to do with anything.

    What’s your IQ? 105 or so?

  3. Svigor Says:

    Basing your argument on Kevin MacDonald books is an argument from authority.

    No, dumbass, that’s not arguing from authority. Saying “becuz the Talmud says so!” is arguing from authority.

    [Fortaleza84: Most of the arguments I have seen basically boil down to “becuz Kevin MacDonald says so.” Unless you want to actually summarize the evidence or arguments. Which I somehow doubt you will do.]

    Asking for a reply to MacDonald (something 14 million Jews have failed to do for how many years now? Astounding, given their energy and tenacity in responding to “ANTI-SEMITISM!!!” most of the time) is just common sense.

    [Fortaleza84: In the time you spent lobbing personal insults at me, you could have easily spent a couple minutes and summarized the best evidence and arguments MacDonald has to offer. But you chose not to. I wonder why.]

  4. Svigor Says:

    Why does the US pressure Israel to freeze settlement construction?

    That’s not a sentence.

    My mistake, I misread it the first time through. But I answered it above. This is the old 99% trick. A 7th grader can see through it, but many Judeo-Correct adults fall for it: if A is 100% philo-Semitic, and B is 99% philo-Semitic, B is an “ANTI-SEMITE!!!” Or in this case, if every Jew doesn’t control every particle of every body of every person in the United States, Jews don’t control the US.

    [Fortaleza84: These are not minor, obscure issues. Israel would really like the US to recognize its designation of Jerusalem as its capital by moving the US embassy there; to stop pressuring Israel on the settlement issue; etc. And yet the US does not do these things.]

  5. Chaucer Says:

    Sabril, what exactly is it you want out of HBD? You seem to want a state of affairs where Whites are racially aware and nationalistic and yet magically not anti-semitic. I don’t think you’re going to get your Holy-Grail of Euros and people of Euro-descent disliking all non-Whites but being fond of Jews. Your fellow brethren seem to understand a lot better than you do that Jews are far safer in a multicultural environment (look at Brazil).

    [Fortaleza84: Whether it makes Jews more or less safe does not affect the underlying truth of HBD. ]

  6. Olave d'Estienne Says:

    Well I’m glad you started this blog. It is commendable that you want to take JQ arguments off the threads where they don’t belong.

    I will probably add little to this debate, because as I see it, with the Sabrils in charge or the Svigors in charge, immigration and affirmative action would stop. Svigor is way more critical of Jews than I am, and you are less critical. From my perspective: So what?

    If I saw Svigor as a murderous Jew-hater, I wouldn’t play ball with him. If I saw you as the kind of guy who wants to punish the average American for his funky goyish shiksa bullshit (using forced integration, bussing, AA, revising 3 million Slavs iced by Hitler out of history), I wouldn’t play ball with you.

    So anyway, I wouldn’t make a good debate ref; I haven’t read MacDonald or the relevant Solzhenitsyn. I’m mostly an observer.

  7. IHTG Says:

    I don’t think you’re going to get your Holy-Grail of Euros and people of Euro-descent disliking all non-Whites but being fond of Jews.

    Assuming it’s possible to get Euros to “dislike non-whites”, then why not?
    In fact, even today, most Euros do prefer not to be around non-whites, but have no problem with Jews.
    I would say that the assumption that racialism would automatically lead to anti-semitism is the fantasy. The Old South wasn’t particularly antisemitic. 19th century Britain wasn’t particularly antisemitic.

  8. nonserviam Says:

    HBD is science, WN is an ideology. Scientifically, Ashkenazim cluster with other Europeans, they are at least as white as Greeks and Italians. Ideologically, you could proclaim any people you don’t like “non-white”, but that wouldn’t make it true.

  9. chaccone Says:

    nonserviam is on the spot .
    Ashkenazi jews are white people.

  10. chaccone Says:

    Svigor Believes that the germans were Committing self defance against the jews in WW2.
    I don’t understand why Steve sailer lets him comment in his blog .

    • Olave d'Estienne Says:

      Hmmm, I am skeptical that Svigor said the Germans were committing self-defense against the Jews in WWII. I’d need a more direct quote. I have never heard him praise the Hitler regime but I have heard criticize Allied triumphalism over the war.

  11. nonserviam Says:

    Here’s a detailed rebuttal of Macdonald’s garbage:

    http://www.people.hbs.edu/dlieberman/lieberman.jewsRaceEmpire.pdf

    But of course, it’s written by a Jew, so no antisemite is going to listen.

  12. ben tillman Says:

    Nonservian, Lieberman’s piece does not even ADDRESS MacDonald’s theses, let alone refute them.

    You have absolutely no idea what MacDonald wrote, so you have absolutely no idea whether anything does or doesn’t refute it. So sit down, and shut up.

  13. ben tillman Says:

    No, the evidence does not support this claim and instead indicates that something else is the problem. The main evidence offered in support of the anti-Semites’ claims is that Leftists are disproportionately Jewish and Jews are disproportionately Leftist.

    No one ever makes that argument. The main argument is that (1) the Jews are the only agent with both the motive and opportunity to do it and (2) we see them doing it. Theoretically, it would have to be the Jews, and empirical observations strongly support the theoretical expectation.

    [Fortaleza84: People make that argument all the time. When I ask for the evidence, it’s common for people to give lists of prominent Leftists and point out that a disproportionate amount are Jewish.

    But anyway,let’s take a look at your argument: Are Jews really the only “agent” with motive and opportunity to undermine Western civilization? Of course not, plenty of other persons and groups have motive to do so. For example, large employers have the motive to bring lots of poor foreigners into the US: cheap labor. The Democratic party has a motive to do so too: More people who are likely to vote Democratic.

    What about your second claim? Do we see Jews undermining Western Civilization? Well, we see some Jews doing it and we see some Jews not. We see some Gentiles doing it and some Gentiles not. So your argument fails on both points.]

  14. ben tillman Says:

    Whenever people bring up Kevin MacDonald, I normally ask them to summarize the best evidence or arguments presented by MacDonald that Jews are responsible for the decline of the West (or of America).

    He doesn’t present any evidence or arguments in support of that claim, since he doesn’t MAKE that claim.

    Read his books, or shut up.

    [Fortaleza84: Lol, you are helping me here. You are saying that everyone who cites MacDonald for the claim that the Jews are collectively to blame for the decline of the West is flat out wrong. As for me, I’m not making any claims at all about what MacDonald does or doesn’t say. So there’s no need for me to read his books. If you think that his books contradict anything I say, feel free to summarize his evidence and/or arguments]

  15. ben tillman Says:

    But anyway,let’s take a look at your argument: Are Jews really the only “agent” with motive and opportunity to undermine Western civilization? Of course not, plenty of other persons and groups have motive to do so.

    Are you kidding me? Obviously, others have a motive, but they don’t have the opportunity. You sidestepped the argument!

    [Fortaleza84: Well let’s look at the opportunity issue. Are there non-Jewish persons or entities with the opportunity to influence Western policy? Of course. For example Teddy Kennedy who sponsored the 1965 immigration act. Walmart (owned by a Gentile) spends millions of dollars on political lobbying. Your claim is simply wrong.]

  16. ben tillman Says:

    What about your second claim? Do we see Jews undermining Western Civilization? Well, we see some Jews doing it and we see some Jews not.

    No, we don’t. We see “the Jews” doing it. The relevant agent is the organized Jewish community, and it acts consistently to weaken the White majority. This focus on “individual” Jews is ludicrous. Life is a team sport, and this is the point of MacDonald’s books.

    [Fortaleza84: What is your evidence to support this claim?]

    Book 1: Jews formed a team.
    Book 2: Europeans sometimes responded to the success of the Jewish team by forming their own cohesive teams.
    Book 3: A number of 20th-century Jewish political and intellectual movements were designed to dissolve the White team so that the Jewish team could dominate by competing solely against individuals.

    We see some Gentiles doing it and some Gentiles not. So your argument fails on both points.

    I didn’t make any argument to which your response would be relevant, but the apparent White involvement is attributable to Jewish influence. No White person could possibly benefit from the extinction of his people. His furtherance of that agenda must be the result of outside influence.

    [Fortaleza84: This is the fatal flaw in your argument. The fact is that some Whites can and do benefit from undermining the West. For example, White slave owners in the ante-bellum South benefited tremendously from importing hundreds of thousands of blacks into the United States just as the White farmers of today benefit tremendously from bringing in Mexican workers. A large percentage of people care only about their short and medium term economic interests and care much less, if at all, about the long term future of their race or ethnic group.

    Here’s a thought experiment: Suppose there is a button you could push sitting on your desk. If you push it, you will get a check for $100,000 and an additional 10 Mexicans will be allowed into the Country. What percentage of American Whites would push that button?

    See, the interests of people as individuals sometimes conflict with the interests of their group as a whole. So you see that your assumption is wrong — that individual Whites might very well act against the interests of Whites as a race.]

  17. ben tillman Says:

    [Fortaleza84: Well let’s look at the opportunity issue. Are there non-Jewish persons or entities with the opportunity to influence Western policy? Of course. For example Teddy Kennedy who sponsored the 1965 immigration act. Walmart (owned by a Gentile) spends millions of dollars on political lobbying. Your claim is simply wrong.]

    Yes, we had the opporunity to kill ourselves. No shit. But WE lack a motive.

    Others had a motive. No shit. But they lack the opportunity.

    This is why this exercise is always so pointless.

    [Fortaleza84: Walmart has every motive in the world: Cheaper labor increases its profits. People like Teddy Kennedy have every motive in the world: More brown and black immigrants means more votes for his party. You are flat out wrong.]

  18. ben tillman Says:

    [Fortaleza84: What is your evidence to support this claim?]

    The statements and actions of the JCPA, ADL, AJCommittee, AJ Congress, etc.

    [Fortaleza84: Please summarize and cite three such statements and actions]

  19. ben tillman Says:

    [Fortaleza84: This is the fatal flaw in your argument. The fact is that some Whites can and do benefit from undermining the West.

    No.

    For example, White slave owners in the ante-bellum South benefited tremendously from importing hundreds of thousands of blacks into the United States just as the White farmers of today benefit tremendously from bringing in Mexican workers.

    No, they didn’t. They suffered or are suffering greatly.

    [Fortaleza84: They suffered at the time? Exactly how? And if so, then why did they do it? Were Jews controlling Southern Whites even in the 18th Century?]

    Succeeding in competition with other Whites is not a benefit if ultimately there are no more Whites.

    [Fortaleza84: Sure in the long-term but a lot of people, perhaps most people, are selfish and/or don’t care about the long term. ]

  20. ben tillman Says:

    See, the interests of people as individuals sometimes conflict with the interests of their group as a whole. So you see that your assumption is wrong — that individual Whites might very well act against the interests of Whites as a race.]

    Uh, WHAT asumption of mine is wrong? Idiot.

    Obviously, the interests of people as individuals sometimes conflict with the interests of their group as a whole. The question is whether people can benefit from the genocide of their own group, and the answer is NO.

    [Fortaleza84: So you are saying that no White person would ever do something which undermines Whites as a group if it were in his short term economic interests to do so? A simple yes or no will do.

    Are you aware that many American Whites make use of illegal Mexican labor, thereby encouraging more Mexicans to come to the US? Again, a simple yes or no will do.]

  21. An excellent post about antisemitism | The Tribe Of Ice People Says:

    […] Answering Anti-Semites More importantly, one can observe that America (and indeed the entire West) has been steadily moving to the Left since long before the Jews had significant influence. For example, the emancipation of black slaves in the 1860s followed by the original civil rights legislation; giving girls the right to vote which culminated in 1920 but was the result of a large movement for many years earlier; and so on. […]

  22. Thank you! | The Tribe Of Ice People Says:

    […] Answering Anti-Semites […]

  23. uh (@uppity_goy) Says:

    So at last the yidden have cooked up a counter-argument to MacDonald.

    Took you long enough.

    [fortaleza84: Lol, I don’t even know what MacDonald’s argument is. How about you summarize his best arguments in a couple paragraphs?]

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